An interview with Peter Derer, PhD Professor Architect, Former Minister Secretary of State, Romania.
Claudia Constantinescu
Traduction vers le français / Translation in french : Claudia Constantinescu
Traduction vers l'anglais / Translation in english : Elda Natalia Strungaru
Coopération / Co-operation : Catherine Wolstencrof |
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euroatelier association |
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| Claudia Constantinescu |
| 21 May 2010 |
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| DRACULA AND WORLD HERITAGE |
The outline of the city by 1960. Photo Arch. Virgil Bilciurescu |
The outline of the city nowadays. Photo Olimpiu Bandalac. 2000 |
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CC: What do you consider to be the reasons that made the Ministry of Tourism choose the only town in the country on the UNESCO World Heritage List as the location for "Dracula Park"?
PD: I think that there are many reasons, but primarily, I am of the opinion that the new (and the former !) Minister of Tourism is very likely to have come up with a platform ? which was a part of the government platform ? that contained many issues, among which there was also the fructification of the Dracula legend, a legend which is worth taking advantage of.
But what it is questionable here is the method by which this fructification is achieved, or that more than one method may exist, one which can be applied to the "American tourists", or to cultural tourism, or in other words, to the "Mass tourism", and for the tourists who have another kind of expectation, because the myth works both ways.
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This myth can turn into reality by being created either by compact locations or a network of sites which would allow the myth to manifest itself. How did they get there? Sighisoara is a town strongly linked to myth, because Vlad Tepes? father used to live there and who, in the 15th century seems to have both rented and leased the workshop where coins were being minted. It is not known whether Vlad Tepes was born there or not, but, the so called Vlad Dracul house did exist at the time. On the other hand I suspect that there were local incentives as well. There is a lot of talk concerning both the encouragement of the services and of the tourism, especially for certain categories of towns which have potential; so, they probably thought of bringing all these parts together. I believe that behind the preference for this location may very well hide a real estate affair. Why? According to our legislation, the protected areas belong to the public and at this point, by changing the location, it was very easy for the construction to turn from the protected area into?a Dracula Park - or Dracula Land - which included, among other things, a chain of villas, especially built for the tourists?but which could very well serve as a means for something else. It is very possible that such an intention might have existed.
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| CHOICE BETWEEN TWO FORMS OF VALORISATION |
CC: There has been a lot of idle talk, both in the country and abroad, about the flaws of this project, about the negative effects that too great a number of visitors (1 million/year) may have upon the town. Which things in the projects do you consider as the most alarming?
PD: Yes, in my opinion, one of the aspects ? the flaws ? of the project was its absence from the national legislation. But this was only "the Achilles? Heel", a weakness that was taken advantage of by those who were against the project. If they were to reproach this project anything, it would have to do with the very core of the issue: on the one hand, there is this idea of building Dracula Land, an idea which has to be fructified; on the other hand, there is a city with a cultural heritage that has to be fructified as well. Apparently these two things worked against each other, even at the detail level, because a certain atmosphere had to be recreated, medieval castles needed to be rebuilt ?of course, these castles were to be made of cardboards, raw cardboards ?, while in the genuine city there were real buildings which bore the stamp of the constructors, and therefore, in my opinion, this is the major flaw which can trigger some other negative effects. There has been a lot of talk concerning the large number of tourists - it remained to be seen whether they would come in such great a number! ? but all these tourists wouldn?t have stayed in Dracula Park, but would have gone to the city. There is the risk that the tourism on a grand scale won?t solve the problem of accommodation in small hotels or board and lodgings, but will raise the issue of building large hotels. And then, it was obvious that a large number of tourists would have made use of the parking lots, the gas stations, the restaurants, and all these would have been too much for the town, with its 30.000 inhabitants.
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The clock tower by 1960. P. Arc. V. Bilciurescu
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The clock tower nowadays. P. Olimpiu Bandalac 2000
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Moreover: the inhabitants of the historic buildings, which possibly would have had work with Dracula Park, would have boxed incomes which they would have, obviously, used partially in the refitting of their residences, taking their models from Dracula Park, being less sensitive thus to the compliance with the rules of restoration or dwelling facilities located in a historic site.
There was also the proposal, suggestion, that a cable way should be created so that Dracula Park could be linked to the Citadel; it was obvious that the outline of the city would have been altered, the very feature which rendered the city authentic. It should be pointed out that this park was about to be constructed in a protected area. This is the Breite highland which, in many normative acts, is registered as a protected area, for a series of qualities, among which I can mention the existence of century - old oak trees, which are as old as Vlad Dracul.
Make no mistake that if there had been another kind of micro-climate, if there had been a change in the place, this oak tree forest wouldn?t have existed.
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The ancient city. Photos Arch. Virgil Bilciurescu. 1960.
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| PERFECT CO-OPERATION BETWEEN MINISTRIES |
CC: How is it possible that not only The Ministry of Public Works, but also The Ministry of Culture, tacitly, though not explicitly?
PD: No, it was explicitly, because The Minister of Culture signed the Government ordinance concerning Dracula Park platform, and gave his consent regarding the opening of the Sighisoara Development Fund !
CC: How can you explain the fact that these two ministries ? of which it cannot be said that they knew nothing of the matter - do not develop any kind of collaboration between them, and we know very well that this lack of communication is to be met also in the more advanced countries?
PD: Yes, because the former stands for the ?development?, the latter for ?preservation?.
CC: ?.so, there was a mutual understanding between them?
PD: It was something political. They proved not to know the legislation of the country and even after the press had shown them what the problem was, they didn?t seem to be embarrassed and continued to unduly hold on to the project. First of all, I believe that we are talking about a lack of professionalism which is characteristic of both ministries. Secondly, I think that they are not acquainted with the legislation of the country, and even if they are, they totally disregard it. There are many laws which have been broken here?
CC: Moreover, Romania is the signatory to a whole set of International Conventions; in the 90?s Romania signed the UNESCO Convention for the heritage preservation.
PD: Yes, there were also international agreements, and for the time being, Sighisoara is the only city in the country which is on the World Heritage list and this means that we have other responsibilities too.
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Vlad Dracul's house, Vlad the Impaller's father. Photo Ilinca Preda.
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CC: The topic ?Dracula Park, in close proximity to Sighisoara" was also a cause for debate in a meeting of the UNESCO Committee for Heritage. What about the report?
PD: It played a very important part, and I am sorry to say that I don?t believe that it was this report alone that could have persuaded the authority to reconsider. There was a chain of reactions and protests, which I suspect, made one wonder. But unfortunately, in Romania there is a rather obvious disregard of the legislation, and even if this is not the case, they try to make the laws work to their advantage. But let us revert to our subject, to Sighisoara. So, they won?t build ?Dracula Park? there. As steps were being taken so that it could be added to the ?list?, the Committee asked for a financial administration plan. Therefore, they came up with a financial plan, which may have very well been created just for the sake of it. If we don?t initiate the revival now, the restoration, the development of the city, if we don?t begin to solve the problems of the citizens, or to solve the problems of the buildings?. It was easy to say no, it was easy to protest, and now, those who protested should replace that source of money, not with ?something else?, but with methods of ?extracting? money from the very core of abundance, from Sighisoara itself. And it won?t be easy because there are few people who can do such a thing. The Local Council, together with those who supported the project don?t have to feel frustrated. On the other hand, those who were against it must not imagine that they won. Now it is the time for both parties to try and come to an understanding, to find solutions, to put programs and projects into practice, to come up with solutions that could help the city develop. It is a most difficult problem and I don?t know many of those who have broken through ? especially when we are talking about Sighisoara, where we are not talking just of a house, but of a large and important part of a city.
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Medieval street by 1960. Photo Arch. Virgil Bilciurescu, 1960.
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Medieval street by 2002. Photo Ilinca Preda. 2002.
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Plan for the urban area - Protected area with historical value. |
Proposal for the revival of the public areas. |
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Master plan and views : architect Doina Bubulete, Institutul URBANPROIECT, 1992.
CC: As a matter of fact, in the Urban Plan, the protected area of Sighisoara covers the entire of the old city : the Citadel, the City and the district near the railway station. It goes without saying that it is not only the Local Council that has to protect such an exquisite place. The institutions which have to be the most involved in this are the Ministry of Culture, closely followed by The Ministry of Public Works?.
PD: Let?s talk a little about this. The central administration should just create the incentive framework for the local administration and the local public to start doing something, in the sense that it is them who establish the normative acts, make the agreements with various bidders, place the experts at our disposal, but also a big part of the responsibility lies within the natives? power. The Ministry of Culture has to be careful, though, lest people might do foolish things.
CC: When you speak of the natives, do you mean ?The Local Council??
PD: I am not talking only of The Local Council, but of the population and of the non-governmental organizations as well, because within the opponents there was a very active organization called ?The Sustainable Sighisoara?. Of course, those in The Ministry of Culture should play a more important part, should be more committed, and they would be much of a help if they just explained to the people the ?Know-how? notion ? that is they should teach them how to make a project, how to put it into practice. I wonder whether the Ministry has these kind of experts?!
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CC: And what about the Ministry of Tourism?
PD: I believe that the Ministry? but primarily I wonder indeed whether we need this ministry, because it could be just a subdivision of another ministry, or agency. This ministry could support, through the encouragement of specific platforms, through the development of the cultural touristic programs (therefore not mass tourism), the local tourist infrastructure (which should be privately owned). I think that the measures taken by the Minister Agathon, had their good points: having made this subject public, he accomplished his aim, that is he called people?s attention to the fact that Romania does have a specific legislation that has to be obeyed; on the other hand, in Sighisoara he managed to bring together the local community, where people became aware of certain things and tried to play an active role.
CC: Sighisara has been on the UNESCO list since 1999?it seems a little bit strange because, before this project, none of these ministries paid any attention to the needs of the town, but when it came to support a project that could irreversibly damage the town, then, they could find the money . It is true that in people?s minds it is deeply imbedded the idea that they need a ?protector?, some kind of a ?parent, guide?, who could tell them what to do and how to do it?
PD: Yes, someone who is able to solve our problems!
CC: And if that someone is the head of the government, the president, anyway, someone who is in charge of things?then, it is perfect.
PD Heart and soul !
CC: Just think to FNI, Caritas and many others !
PD: Then, we devote ourselves entirely to the cause.
Caragiale said that, when he was a child, the Romanian dreams were of being a recipient of a bursary, then a clerk and finally, a retired person?
But anyway, you raised a very important issue here: so, they had the money to construct Dracula Land ?and now, with the project falling through, all they could do was at least keep the funds and use them for the benefit of the city. There are many cities which are confronted with the same problem? Then, we are in the habit of renting the monument buildings to people who have no idea what monument means. At this point I have to express my total disapproval of the way the real estate system works, because, not once did our legislation raise the issue that, when someone buys a house, forcefully appropriated by State, he must be told that it is within his province to take care of it, and if he proves that he is not able to do that, then? Therefore, the monument buildings are faced with this kind of problem. The difference between Transylvania and the former Principalities (Moldavia and Valahia) resides in the fact that in Transylvania the historical monuments are clustered together.
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Courtyard in the ancient city. Photo Olimpiu Bandalac, 2000
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The pupils' path. Photo Olimpiu Bandalac, 2000.
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CC: It has been decided that Dracula Park should be constructed in the vicinity of Bucharest?in accordance with the notifications of the Pricewaterhouse Coopers audit firm. What does all this mean for Bucharest?
PD: Bucharest is a very large city, and it is not necessarily known by its unique historical buildings. I don?t want to imply that I think less of them, but for the time being they are not on the list of the World Heritage. But the city is large enough and there are all kinds of people, so that the impact of such a great program can easily be accomodated. Moreover, the project can become viable because, while in Sighisoara the isn't room enough for so many tourists, because of its location, this place is a whole lot better. We can also find here bits of evidence of Dracula?s existence. It is true that Bucharest, even without this project, would have managed to develop both economically and financially. I consider Dracula Land a money making project and this is the reason why it should have been constructed in a place which lacked potential. I don?t know, maybe it should have been constructed in Poienari, Dimbovita, Arges, or Tirgoviste.
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Biographical data
Peter Derer, PhD Professor, Architect
1982 - 1986 : restoration workshop of the City Hall of Bucharest
1986 - 1990 : restoration workshop of the Art Academy
1990 - 1992 : Director of the National Division of Monuments, Buildings and Historical Sites
1996 - 1997 : Bucharest Chief Architect
1998 - 2000 : Director of the General Administration Office of the Public Works and Urban Planning
Counsellor of the MLPAT Minister
Minister Secretary of State MLPAT
1992 - 2002 : Member and President (2000 - 2002) of the National Commission of Monuments, Buildings and Historical Sites
During all this time : Professor at the University of Architecture and Urban Planning "Ion Mincu" Bucharest.
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Books :
1. Cetatea Sighisoara / Vasile Dragut / Bucuresti, 1968.
2. Urkundenbuch zur Geschichte der Deutschen in Siebenbürgen / F. Zimmermann, C. Werner / Sibiu, 1892.
3. Toponimia româneasca / Iorgu Iordan / Bucuresti, 1963.
4. Dezvoltarea centrelor istorice ale oraselor medievale din Transilvania pâna la sfârsitul secolului al XVI-lea / Paul Niedermaier / teza de doctorat, 1975.
5. Istoria românilor - din cele mai vechi timpuri pâna la moartea regelui Ferdinand / Constantin C. Giurescu / Editura Cugetarea - Georgescu Delafras, 1943.
6. O istorie sincera a poporului român / Florin Constantiniu / Univers enciclopedic, 1999.
7. O scurta istorie a românilor povestita celor tineri / Neagu Djuvara / Humanitas 2002.
8. Dracula (Books of Wonder) / Bram Stoker, Barry Moser (Illustrator), Peter Glassman /
Harpercollins Juvenile Books, 2000.
9. Dracula, Prince of Many Faces His Life and His Times / Raymond T. McNally, Radu Florescu/ Little Brown & Co (Pap), 1990.
10. In Search of Dracula : The History of Dracula and Vampires / Radu Florescu, Raymond T. McNally / Mariner Books; Revised edition , October 1994.
11. Lonely Planet Romania and Moldova (2nd Edition) / David St. Vincent, Nicola Williams, Kim Wildman / Lonely Planet; 2nd edition , April 2001.
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The clock tower nowadays. Photo Olimpiu Bandalac. 2000.
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Articles :
1. Sighisoara / François Blanc / Monuments Historiques N° 169, pages 89-92, Editions de la Caisse Nationale des Monuments Historiques et des Sites, Paris, juin - juillet 1990.
2. Sighisoara la ora adevarurilor - incomode, dar grave / Radu Popa / Revista 22 N° 14, pag. 7 si urmatoarele, Bucuresti, aprilie 1992.
3. Geneza orasului Sighisoara / Paul Niedermaier / Revista Monumente Istorice si de Arta, Bucuresti, anul XLJJJ.
4. "Dracula Park" - o întreprindere faraonica, continuarea proiectelor megalomane dinainte de 1989 / Romulus Cristea / ziarul România Libera din 25 Feb. 2002, pag. 17.
5. Bucuresti - noua locatie recomandata de PricewatherhouseCoopers pentru "Dracula Park" / Carmen Andrei / ziarul România Libera din 27 Ian 2003.
6. Amplasament probabil : dracula Park, la Vlasia-Snagov / Adrian O. Vasiliu / ziarul România Libera din 29 Ian. 2003.
7. Turismul a adus 600 mil. USD / Fulvia Meirou / ziarul Capital Nr.2, 09 Ian. 2003.
8. 32% din romani nu agreeaza amplasarea "Dracula Park" langa Bucuresti / C. Andrei / ziarul România Libera din 26 Feb. 2003.
A list of web sites "more infos" through various entries :
The official web site of the project.
Romanian and international press articles.
The experts' point of view.
The stand of the civil society.
Sighisoara related web sites.
Photo albums.
The medieval art Festival.
Stamps.
Tourism.
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 other web sites
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